Career Cheat Code
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Career Cheat Code
068 | A Career in Public Health with Maleeka Jamil Glover
Ever wondered how public health experts manage crises from behind the scenes? Join us as we sit down with Maleeka Jamil Glover, an esteemed epidemiologist and executive director of WCAPS, who shares her incredible journey from the CDC trenches to leading a nonprofit that empowers women of color. With over two decades of experience navigating public health emergencies like Hurricane Katrina and COVID-19, Maleeka offers a rare glimpse into the complexities of managing vulnerable populations during disasters. Her unique perspective on cardiovascular epidemiology and her passion for global health will leave you inspired and informed.
Maleeka takes us through the logistical and emotional hurdles faced by healthcare workers and public health officials during COVID-19. From standardizing data collection across states to the emotional toll on frontline workers, she provides an insider's look at the immense efforts required to keep the nation safe. Balancing her dual roles at the CDC and WCAPS, Maleeka's commitment to public health and policy change shines through, offering valuable lessons on resilience and dedication.
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Host - Radhy Miranda
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Producer - Gary Batista
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My dad sent me a bunch of books about you know being how to be a good ED and you know interactions with the board and all of those kinds of things and raising money for nonprofits. And it wasn't until about a week later that it hit me that I was like hold on, wait a minute. My dad was actually an ED and I didn't realize that that was his job title because he was that when I was a kid so I just knew he worked at a nonprofit. I didn't, you know, I knew he ran it but I really didn't think about what his job title was and so it didn't hit me till he sent me all these books and it didn't. Really.
Speaker 1:It didn't occur to me at first because my dad has a huge library, always has the whole time. You know as much as I've been a kid. He always had lots and lots these books. But then I thought about it. I was like, wait a minute. He wore an ED when I was growing up. This is absolutely crazy. It was really enjoyable to make that connection again as well.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Career Cheat Code. In this podcast, you'll hear how everyday people impact the world through their careers. Learn about their journey, career hacks and obstacles along the way. Whether you're already having the impact you want or are searching for it, this is the podcast for you. All right, malika, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you taking the time to connect today. You know, let's not waste a moment. Let's dive right in and tell the world what you do for a living.
Speaker 1:So I am an epidemiologist, I am a social epidemiologist, specifically with a background in cardiovascular epidemiology, and also I am the executive director of a nonprofit.
Speaker 2:Wow, so you have two roles. What does that mean? How are you the executive director of a nonprofit and what does the nonprofit do? And what does it mean to be an epidemiologist?
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely so. Epidemiology unlike a lot of people think, skin epidemiology focuses on epidemics, and what is it about? Populations that impact epidemics, and so that's what I study, and so by training, I focused a lot on what society has to do with cardiovascular health and hence the cardiovascular epidemiologist. But epidemiology fundamentally is a skill set, a set of skills as a scientist, where I can apply the concepts of epidemiology to any particular health outcome that you're interested in. So, fundamentally, I'm a scientist, which I love, and have been working at the Centers for Disease Control for the last 20 plus years. When I came there. I came there as an epidemic intelligence service officer or EIS officer, and did that training for two years and then have been there ever since and as an executive director. I run a nonprofit called WCAPS Women of Color Advancing Peace, security and Conflict Transformation, and my responsibility is the programming that is focusing on the development of women of color in leadership roles and also roles of policy change when it comes to peace, security and conflict transformation.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay. So first of all, this is a lot, so let's peel this back. So how long have you been at the CDC now?
Speaker 1:I have been at CDC for 21 years.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, and I think typically, at least for me, I didn't really hear much about the CDC up until the beginning of the pandemic. Then it's like everyone looking to the CDC and what's happening and what is the CDC telling us to do? Tell me about your role, kind of basically pre-pandemic, and then through the height of the pandemic, what did your role consist of and kind of how you saw the shift in prioritization of your agency right, so which pandemic are you referring to?
Speaker 1:Because there have been a couple. I love.
Speaker 2:this Are you referring to. Covid, I am, but you please tell me what else we have been through that I have not been too much paying attention to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's not necessarily uncommon. I came to CDC two years before Hurricane Katrina, which is probably one of the other major events that most people are familiar with, but there are events that happen all the time. So when I came to CDC, friends of mine were involved in the anthrax response, and so there are things that reached a level of newsworthiness I guess you could call it things that reached a level of pandemics, international incidents that involve our partners like WHO and other country offices, and things like that that are going on all the time. So monkeypox has happened recently. You had COVID-19. There's been a measles outbreak. We had H1N1, ebola, zika and many other things in between Ebola, zika and many other things in between natural disasters, all of that.
Speaker 1:And so the main thing that I did the first two years I was there was a lot of research. So as an EIS officer, I got an opportunity just to kind of do a lot of exploration of public health, and so I traveled to India. I traveled to a number of other countries within India worked on the stop polio response and another of other countries for other just things that I was interested in. India I worked on the Stop Polio response and another of other countries for other just things that I was interested in learning. So I went to Beijing because the CDC in Beijing and in China was interested in setting up a surveillance system for chronic disease, and as a cardiovascular epidemiologist I had expertise in that area.
Speaker 1:So I really sort of used those two years as an EIS officer to really explore multiple things in public health. And then, when I got finished, hurricane Katrina happened and it sort of used those two years as an EIS officer to really explore multiple things in public health. And then, when I got finished, hurricane Katrina happened and it sort of shifted my focus and career to emergency management. Because I was a cardiovascular epidemiologist and had a lot of experience in chronic disease and vulnerable populations. I got pulled into that response to basically support the agency with managing vulnerable populations in this particular crisis. Primarily, in the past with hurricanes it had been a lot of focus on injuries. Injury prevention was what you would expect with natural disasters such as a hurricane, but this particular incident was very different in the way that there were many individuals who were impacted by Hurricane Katrina that had a lot of chronic conditions, multiple chronic conditions, disabilities and a number of other vulnerabilities, and so it really sort of changed, I think, the trajectory of the focus of emergency preparedness at the agency in terms of how we dealt with those populations in particular, and so that shifted sort of my focus at the agency from less of the data analysis and some of the other things I was doing to much more being the person to help assist in getting the agency on track on how we manage these populations and so sort of being the driving the lead behind getting the subject matter experts at the agency who managed up to I don't know 25 plus vulnerable populations which you know kids, schools, pregnant women, persons with chronic conditions, all of that sort of together to collectively figure out how we manage these populations during an emergency. So that was 2025. I mean 2005.
Speaker 1:And I have been in emergency response ever since I have been in the Haiti cholera outbreak which happened after the earthquake. Like I said, h1n1, h7n9, mers, ebola, zika We've had two Ebola's monkeypox and COVID-19. So I think Ebola got people's attention I think a lot, because it started out in another country and then came to the United States and impacted several nurses here in the US. And then probably Zika, I guess, got a lot of attention because of its impact on pregnant women and potential impact on birth defects. Then, of course, covid-19 got everybody's attention. So I think there's lots of things going on at the CDC all the time. I think a lot of people. You know, of course, unless you're here in Atlanta, which is where I am. You tend not to sort of always pay a lot of attention to the sort of small things going on at CDC.
Speaker 2:Okay, so tell me what happens when you walk into the office on a Monday. Call it April 2020. So what are you working on, Like? What are you, like tasked with doing? Like how are you, within your role, kind of helping this not just the country, but the world really deal with this pandemic that has, as you said, basically stopped the world, unlike some of the other outbreaks that impact specific populations or smaller populations. In some cases, like this was actually like a time stop. So tell me what you were doing kind of during that time to help us get through that A lot of meetings.
Speaker 1:There are many people to answer to when you have a response like that, and so for me in particular, for the COVID response. I was responsible for managing the data collection in the US, so basically, the data collection from all of our states, which was a pretty big undertaking, because you're talking about a system that everyone doesn't use the same method of data collection. It doesn't all filter into one particular system, and then you're creating a whole nother set of data points that you are now expecting our partners at our state public health offices to collect and all of our hospitals basically to collect, and on top of the fact that they are also managing patient care and people who have COVID actually. So that's a lot to ask of our partners. My responsibility was to work with them to implement the data collection tool instrument that had been created for us to use, but also to work with them on figuring out how to get the data in exactly the way that we needed, and initially we were asked to collect it on a daily basis, which was a bit of a burden for our partners at the States.
Speaker 1:Again, a lot of meetings, a lot of conversation, a lot of relationship management and a lot of just trying to ensure that we were being as supportive and helpful as possible, in addition to spinning up a team of individuals who could be responsible for managing what needed to happen in every single state, plus deployers who could go out to the states and support for COVID and a myriad of other things. So I think you know the early days of any response, like I said, is a lot of meetings, a lot of conversation, a lot of figuring out who goes where, a lot of org chart development. No-transcript.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely no. I specifically remember you know I worked for the city of New York at that time and the states, the cities, everyone trying to compile information daily. And you know information when we're talking about people, infected deaths, the trends between what you know, the just data that needed to be collected. And that was just. You know me looking at it from the city and the state of New York, right? So not looking at it as an entire country, right?
Speaker 1:And so we're asking the whole country to do that on top of patient care. And a lot of that data is not coming from the health department, it's coming directly from the hospital. So there is a nurse who is taking care of COVID patients who we've also asked that sometime at the end of your shift to go enter the data on a number of patients that you had the status of patients, the PPE at the hospital, all of those things. So it was a lot.
Speaker 1:I had experience with working with the state, epis and the health departments previously, so had those partnerships with some of the other agencies in place, so was able to sort of navigate it a bit and manage people's sort of anger, I think, quite frankly, at the time when all of these things were going on. So it was interesting and, given that I had been in a number of other pandemics before, it took a different toll, I think, on everybody Because, as you said, it wasn't just a small group of people that were impacted. The whole country shut down, the world shut down, and so it just required a different level of, I think, engagement and, I think, resilience for all of us. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Okay, so tell me more about what's your favorite part of your role.
Speaker 1:Favorite part of my role. So people ask me that all the time. I love being a scientist. I love, you know. Undergrad was probably the first time I heard about the Centers for Disease Control maybe high school and once I sort of got an opportunity to do a summer program at the CDC I just was kind of in love. I was like who would want to work anywhere else? I think I love the idea of public health and that space just being able to impact not just domestic but international, so the global public health space, and just being able to just learn and be supportive of our domestic and international partners. As a biology major, a person who's always loved science and math, once I got a chance to learn about public health it just kind of took over from there Got it.
Speaker 1:I love that Okay.
Speaker 2:So I want to be mindful that you also have another full-time role, and we haven't really dove into that role yet, so we'd love to hear a little bit more about kind of what that role is, how you came to have two full-time roles and what that looks like for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it looks like a lot of balancing, quite a bit of a balancing act, but it works because there's ebbs and flows on both sides, so it works out really well. You know, it is my first time working in a nonprofit. On that side of things, my week involves sort of a mix of, I would say, strategic planning, engaging with diverse stakeholders, finding finances to support the nonprofit, leadership, engagement, leadership development, collaborating with partners, advocating for policies that you know ensure women of color are in the spaces that they need to be in. So I would say you know a balance of meetings, research, mentoring, fundraising, you know, kind of all of those things. And it's funny because when I I remember telling my dad about this job. So I was on the board of this organization first and then got asked to step in as the interim director and then stayed as the ED, my dad sent me a bunch of books about, you know, being how to be a good ED and you know, interactions with the board and all of those kinds of things and raising money for nonprofits.
Speaker 1:And it wasn't until about a week later that it hit me that I was like, hold on, wait a minute, my dad was actually an ED and I didn't realize that that was his job title because he was that when I was a kid so I just knew he worked at a nonprofit. I didn't, you know. I knew he ran it, but I really didn't think about what his job title was and so it didn't hit me till he sent me all these books. And it didn't really. It didn't occur to me at first because my dad has a huge library, always has the whole time. You know as much as I've been a kid, he, he always had lots and lots of books, so it didn't surprise me that he had these books. But then I thought about it. I was like, wait a minute, you weren't eating when I was growing up. This is absolutely crazy. It was really enjoyable to make that connection again as well.
Speaker 2:I love those full circle moments and you're basically still passing down. I mean, it sounds like that level of service was instilled in you early right and you're still working both on the federal government side and on the nonprofit side. And you know, I'm sure that's not coincidental, I'm sure that's much more exposure and what you were privy to and kind of what values were instilled in you then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it definitely was for us all full circle, because I never even thought of it when I was a kid, didn't even occur to me, never even really thought about those words. Honestly, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:No, that makes sense to me. So tell me about this role now. So I understand that you were on the board and I can see how. If you're on the board of an organization and they're looking for an executive director, I can see why you would step up and say you know what I could do this in the interim Because, as part of the board. One, that's part of your responsibilities. Two, you want to make sure that the organization thrives and succeeds right, and you want to set them up for success. Help me understand how you arrived at the conclusion that you can actually like balance both full-time roles.
Speaker 1:You know, I think I just had to do it. So I think it was one of those things where, when I was asked to step in as interim, I was like, given my skillset and ability to manage emergencies and pandemics and other things, I can do this. So I think it was a matter of sort of stepping in from the perspective of really looking at sort of what were the needs, sort of emergent needs, and then thinking about sort of assessing what the needs of the organization were going forward. So I sort of just decided that I could apply the skill sets that I use regularly, just, you know, use those over the course of that next year as I was working for the nonprofit, and so that's what I did, did sort of a needs assessment, I guess you could say, of the organization, and that's what I did for the first year. And then, after that year, decided to reapply to be the executive director, decided I wanted to finish what I started, I guess you could say. And here I am.
Speaker 2:I love this right Because I think sometimes we mentally set limits and boundaries on what we could do right, and you have this long career at the CDC and you find ways to balance your bandwidth right and you recognize I've seen people that have either their side hustle or a side business or even if it's a nonprofit, it's their nonprofit that they've started right. You went another route. You went to leadership on the board level to then saying you know what? I can actually help support this organization as a full-time role. And I appreciate that because I think a lot of us need to hear that we can extend beyond what we think is the normal bandwidth.
Speaker 2:I probably don't recommend it to most of us, but I do think there's a universe where we tend to limit, kind of, what our contributions can be. But if you can balance the two, why not? Right, like, why not, why not be this epidemiologist working for the federal government and also an executive director of a nonprofit? So you know, I just really appreciate when folks take the leadership and say you know what? I don't want to set limits on myself and this is all tied into the impact that I want to give.
Speaker 1:And I had asked a couple of my friends about it because I was like, am I crazy? And they were like. They were like this is perfect for you, and I think that was the other thing is it seemed like a natural progression and so it was weird. It was weird because it was like this doesn't make any sense, but it was almost like it just kind of got dropped in my lap intentionally. It was odd to say no.
Speaker 1:So it just kind of felt natural and so I'm really happy that I did it Really enjoy both of those spaces and they you know to your point about sort of service, and so they really sort of just fulfill both of the things that I love. And I guess it's that service and also sort of the academic side of being a scientist that I enjoy.
Speaker 2:Tell me more about the nonprofit. What type of services do you provide, like? What do you all do?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So WCAPS has a breadth of things. We have mentorship programs, pipeline programs. We also have initiatives that we have that focus on DEI. We have a number of partnering events that we do, such as webinars, seminars. We basically do whatever it is we can to support, all the way from K-12 to mid-career women of color in the space of peace, security and conflict transformation, to ensure that they have a seat at the table and not just a seat, but an active voice in all levels of change and policy change and being change makers and thought leaders and really force multipliers in this space of peace, security and conflict transformation. So the goal is to make sure that we stand behind those women in those spaces to move things in the direction that they need to be in, to ensure that our voices are heard and our experiences are heard and valued and recognized.
Speaker 2:That's great. Is this a national organization, and how big are you all?
Speaker 1:It is. There's 2,000 plus members. We have international chapters as well as domestic ones, so it is definitely an international organization. It's based in the US, but definitely open globally, and our pipeline program has young women from all over the world, so it's very exciting to see those women grow. It's exciting to work with women who are seasoned in this space as well to get their wisdom on you know how we make progress in this space and, just broadly, really exciting to work with just a vast array of women of color who are just doing so many wonderful things.
Speaker 2:Can you tell me both what are your favorite parts of this role and the most challenging part of being an executive director of this type of organization?
Speaker 1:Oh, so I think favorite parts are the people that I get to meet and the service component. My least favorite part would have to be the fundraising piece, I think just with a federal background it's just not something we do and then I have to do on a regular basis. So that probably was my least favorite part and I hope I can say that.
Speaker 2:No, that's fair. I'm sure many executive directors are aligned with you on that. They like the organization, they like the work, and I'm sure there are challenges with that. So how do you get better at both of these things, because those are two very different backgrounds having epidemiologists and now running an organization? What have you done in continue to grow or like, fill in any gaps, from scientists to nonprofit leadership?
Speaker 1:I continue to learn. I consider myself a servant leader, but I also consider myself a lifelong learner. So those books my dad sent me I read, continue to take courses online. I make sure I strategically place mentors in my life that have expertise in many spaces so that when I hit roadblocks of things and I may not have as much experience and I'm able to get the support that I need to be successful in that space. And also making sure you're positioning the people around you that also are experts in the spaces that you're not, because we're not going to be experts in everything. So we make sure we have advisors and the people around us who know those spaces and so they can be supportive of us. So that is generally what I make sure I try to do.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. And I mean, you're also you have a master's in public health, right? Yes, where did you get that? And also you also have a PhD. So you know, we'd love to make sure that we cover that. And I know you've also done a good number of, or some, fellowships, and I know that because we went through one and that's how you and I got connected. But I think I think all of these things combined are part of like what prepares you for these types of moments when, when, then, you step into further in your career.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. So I would start with my undergraduate degree, which I have, a bachelor's of science and biology from Clark Atlanta University, very proud of my HBCU and I did an internship called Project MHOTEP the summer after I graduated. Mhotep is run through Morehouse Public Health Science Institute, which was started by Dr Bill Jenkins and my advisor for that program. His name is Dr Frank Richards and he works on a disease called river blindness. That was my sort of like real sort of main dipping into the CDC because he was actually at CDC. So I spent a summer working with him and so that was my initial sort of entrance into real CDC work.
Speaker 1:But after I got to under ed I was really thinking I was going to medical school and then realized how much I really just like the smell of hospitals, like from the soap to the like, everything I was like this is not going to work, decided that I needed to sort of think about you know what are the other things in biology and science I could do, and I really didn't want to be in a lab because I had been in the lab. I had one of my faculty. I worked for him in the lab and I really enjoyed it. I really liked working for him, but I knew that I didn't just want to be in the lab. And then a friend of mine asked me to take a biostats class, and during taking that biostats class, my TA for that class actually was in this program and that's how I got introduced to public health. And so after that, just everything just changed at that point. So I would say there, and then after I had this exposure to epidemiology in particular, then I had to decide OK, so what is the shift in my career going to look like now? So that's how I ended up applying to schools of public health and I did my master's in public health and epidemiology at the University of Michigan and had an amazing supervisor there. And then I decided that definitely was going to do a doctoral degree there.
Speaker 1:And then I decided that definitely was going to do a doctoral degree. So at that particular time my actually my my advisor at U of M, dr Sherman James he's amazing. I still keep in touch with all of these people. There were only a couple of programs that were really sort of focusing on epidemiology at the time, and so I ended up applying to Harvard School of Public Health and so that's where I got my it's actually an STD, a doctorate of science had a wonderful advisor there, lisa, and many, many other amazing faculty there as well. So really from biology to non I, you know I did a lot of other training programs at CDC as well. I did programs on meta leadership and other programs and then, once I got to sort of the space of being in nonprofit, shaped this public health, global public health, then intersection of global public health, and then peace and security and advocacy you know sort of trajectory of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so let's tell the world what ICAP is, because I do think it was a remarkable program.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so International Career Advancement Program. You know it's interesting because I wasn't sure what to expect from ICAP and what, because I think you know the description of it is for mid-career sort of professionals, and but what I felt was that it was going to give me that sort of network and background to really sort of dig deep into sort of the international peace, security, conflict transformation and policy side of things which I don't have an extensive background in, and so I really felt like it did, like it did give me that. So it allowed me. First of all, it also made me realize that nobody told me about being a foreign service officer, and so that was the other interesting thing I feel like I learned from being in ICAP, that I was like, wait a minute, this is another career path I could have taken and actually I realized I still can't have another 10 years to decide if I want to do it.
Speaker 2:And you have the background with the conflict resolution that I'm sure will come into play.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. So I would really be excited about sort of being an ambassador. I think that would be a really cool dream job at some point, maybe before I retire. I just really felt like it gave that background and experience and an opportunity to learn from so many other people in the field and the space who are working in these areas, and that was just really great. It just opened up just a whole nother door to other opportunities and partners and now some of those same people, their organizations I'm trying to figure out how we can do something together with WCAPS and collaborate on something and it's just kind of really opened up, I think, the door of knowledge and information to other opportunities in this space and what others are doing.
Speaker 2:Quite frankly, Absolutely, and I think for folks that are specifically interested in, I would say foreign service is primarily like the State Department are folks that are there, but I think either government or nonprofits or philanthropy, specific folks that care about, like the DEI lens component of it and just having a network of folks that are dedicated to that type of work Definitely encourage folks to look at ICAP. We, we formed a really strong bond with folks there in our week over in Aspen, which that in itself is a good selling point, but it definitely was just a just a great time with some really good humans that are dedicating their careers to in equitable ways in different parts of the world. So you know, so that part was great. Tell me more about some of these books and resources. Right, you mentioned you read a lot to stay on top of things. Can you recommend any books or resources that have helped you personally or professionally?
Speaker 1:So I have a lot more books than I read. Let me start by saying that I was having this conversation yesterday. I am a connoisseur of books. I love books. I think I love and I love authors that are persons of color. I often see books that I'm like oh, I have to have that book, I need to have it in my library. I tend to like I have a lot of poetry books, I have a lot of self-care books, books like Crucial Conversations, plus also a lot of just kind of history books. And then if you were to look at my collection of books that I have for my kids, that's just a whole nother level of sort of books that I have, and some of them, quite frankly, are not just for my kids, they're for me because I really love them as well.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think is there anything in particular? No, I mean really I just kind of read sort of what I'm feeling at the time. There is a book, you know, by one of my mentors. Her name is Octavia Rahim and she focuses a lot on rest. That has sort of been the book that I keep in my bag, my luggage, you know, in that, and she's coming out with a new one. Any of her three books are books that I keep with me and travel with me, because it helps me really think a little bit more about not just balance but also harmony and keeping myself going and allowing myself to rest and pause, and so I would say that in this, in this part of my life and career, those have been kind of really important for me these days.
Speaker 2:And as.
Speaker 1:I get older, quite frankly, managing, you know, work, life, family and all of that.
Speaker 2:So this can be for both of your roles. You know, both as someone that has dedicated their career to working at the CDC, at a federal agency, and as someone that is running in, that is, an executive director of a nonprofit with global membership and impact in different ways. You know how much money can folks expect to make in these types of careers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know that's an interesting question. So I think most federal jobs, like in terms of salary range, is posted. I think it's public knowledge and it's funny because it definitely was one of the things I remember talking about some of my friends when we left grad school. They were like, yeah, I'm not going to work for the government, you don't make any money. I think that's a common theme across federal agencies and it also depends, of course, how long you stay in the government.
Speaker 1:So I would say sort of in my space for both of those things and on the nonprofit size, it depends on the resources your nonprofit has, the size of it, how big it is, how much money is coming in all of those things. So I would say, as a range I would say for both of them, given that I've been in my job with CDC for over 20 years, I would say both of them are probably in the range of 100 to 150, maybe more, again, depending upon I've seen ED jobs posted online and it's 160, 170, 180. But again, it depends on the resources of the organization, how big it is and how much money they can, quite frankly, pay the ED, and so I think it would depend. But after 20 years in the government I would say 100,000 plus is a good space to say you could be in. That's what I would say.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that. No, I think that's super important, right? Because I think a lot of us look at things like federal government or government period and think, well, we're not going to make any money, it'll be good benefits.
Speaker 1:Benefits are important, absolutely, absolutely, and I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to say there are other things that balance it out.
Speaker 2:So tell me more. Tell me more about why these benefits are so good.
Speaker 1:For me, I think that when I was a single mom, when I started at the CDC, and for me it just provided a level of stability and security. I'm also a commission corps officer, so I'm a US Public Health Service commission corps officer, so I am active duty technically. So I am one of the two unarmed branches of what we would call the uniform service. Most people think about the military, that would be the armed services, and we are unarmed. It's us and NOAA, but collectively we are the uniform service. So I get paid by my time in service and my rank. That determines how much my pay is and that too I can look up online and figure out how much I would make at this many years at this particular rank.
Speaker 1:I would say that there are benefits of stability, retirement, va benefits and things like that. That working for the federal government, I think provides just a lot of consistency from that perspective. You know health insurance covered, you know all of those kinds of things, so I think you know it can balance it out some from that perspective. You know I have a lot of friends that decided to go the route of academia, but then I also didn't want to be locked in to one working at a university where my salary depended upon how much money I brought in from my grant and from my projects, or, you know, having to deal with the rigor of trying to get rank, you know, at an academic institution. And so for me this, just for my work life balance was just a lot more. It made more sense for my life at the time to go the federal government route.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. What advice would you have for someone that's looking to work in the federal government and, you know, have some of these hesitations?
Speaker 1:I think my advice comes back to you have to do what's best for your life. Age plays a role in that. Family status plays a role in that. Like I said, I was a single mom at the time, and so, you know, my daughter had been with me in all of my moving of cities and states and all of my degree programs since undergrad, and so at that point I really just wanted to have some stableness for her at that point, and so that provided that for me. So, really, you know, I think the decision comes down to you know again, what is it that you want for your career? So me working at the CDC which I loved anyway was fine with me, and it was OK that I worked for the federal government.
Speaker 1:At that point I just needed to decide whether or not I wanted to be a civil servant or I really wanted to be active duty and part of the commission corps, and I felt that, career-wise, being part of the commission corps also had benefits that allowed me to be part of an activated core of individuals that support public health responses, and so I really felt like I wanted to do that. So I think, at the end of the day, you have to do the things that are best for your life and the balance of what you have going on in your life and what you want for your career down the road and the flexibility that you think you might want ahead. I have friends that are still teaching at universities, and academia is all they wanted to do, and so that was perfect for them, and I think this has really been a flexibility for me that I really enjoy being able to move around the agency and do different things and still be involved in global public health more broadly.
Speaker 2:Are either of your two roles what you thought you were going to be doing when you were younger?
Speaker 1:thought you were going to be doing when you were younger. No, as I said, I really thought I was going to medical school, you know. So I'm a PK, I'm a preacher's kid and spent a lot of time at church, at church events, traveling to church conventions and things like that with my dad and family. And science has always been, you know, my love, and so I have not. I've never wavered from that. My mom loved to travel, so I knew at some point you know, probably you know traveling was going to be something that I wanted to be part of. You know my career at some point.
Speaker 1:But other than that, really sort of had just really had this whole medical school thing in mind. And, like I said, it wasn't until I got to undergrad and was really like this is not going to play out the way I thought it was. So I had to think of something different and it took me. I guess my sophomore year is when my friend asked me to take this biostats class, because the first year I just was like you know what? You know, I have time, I'll figure it out and then when I took this class, it just all kind of made sense that public health was the route for me. So I really never had thought about anything else growing up other than my dad's a preacher, a Baptist minister, his twin sister is, my aunts and uncles are also ministers. That was definitely not a route I was going to go, and so this was really the only other option, and so never really thought about anything else, quite frankly.
Speaker 2:Are you involved in anything else outside of work that either brings you passion and joy or that you help support with some of your expertise? That could be a board, that could be a membership somewhere. That could be anything that you think just kind of helps fill your cup and also provide some of your knowledge to others.
Speaker 1:I am actually on another board that allows me to share my expertise and knowledge and passion. I love going to museums. I love art. That is really a thing that really brings me joy. Music I love music and I absolutely love to travel.
Speaker 1:Even though I try to get as much travel from work as possible, I absolutely just love the exposure to various cultures. I mean, just everything about it just makes me just really excited. I guess it's a bug I got from my mom that I didn't realize I had till I got older. But my oldest daughter, who is 31, also loves to travel, which I guess is a bug she got from me. So she even travels by herself to go on vacations when she needs to. She is fluent in Spanish, and so she just came back from Mexico. She loves Cuba. She's been to Medellin in Colombia, and so she really just loves also just kind of being in the world and I enjoy that as well.
Speaker 1:So I would say you know anything in the space of art. So, like every time we go out of the country or even just out of the state, we try to find a museum while we're there. I usually have a tendency to figure out all of the places we're going to eat while we're there. So food. So I would say culture, food, art, music and travel are the things that really, really make me happy.
Speaker 2:How can people support the nonprofit that you're the executive director for?
Speaker 1:Yes, so wcapsorg W-C-A-P-Sorg Please visit the website. You can support by being a member. You are able to support financially and we welcome all allies to the organization to support the work that we're doing in partnerships and many other avenues that you could do to support WCAPS. We are very open to women of color and, like I said, other allies as well that are supporting making sure that the voices of women of color are heard in that space.
Speaker 2:Is there anything else we haven't covered today that the world should know about you?
Speaker 1:Let's see, I was born and raised in Pittsburgh and I am an avid Steelers fan. There's nothing you can tell me that would not make me think about anybody else other than the Steelers, no matter where I've lived. I've lived in Massachusetts, I have lived in, I live in Atlanta I'm not a Braves fan or anything else that has to do with Atlanta. I have lived in Michigan, so, but there's nothing you could do to change my love for the Steelers. I have an active member card, for it's called the Steel City Mafia, and I have Steelers all over my truck. I would say, yes, that's the only other thing I can think of. And so you know. It's funny because when I look at some of my family, like online and things that they're posting, they all have black and gold on all the time and my husband thinks it's much. It's definitely a cult, but yeah, so that's the only thing I can think of.
Speaker 1:I have three other siblings. I am from a very big family. Both my parents have more than eight siblings and so just grew up around a lot of family and I have three children that span the ages of 31 to 12. And I'm over 50, which I am absolutely delighted about, and I know a lot of people don't like talking about their age, but when I turned 50, I was absolutely ecstatic. So it is one thing that I feel very proud of and I love what I do. I love my family, I love what I do, I love life, I love trying to figure out how to get to learn about something new and how to be somewhere and how to travel somewhere else.
Speaker 1:I have been to places I've never even heard of. I've been to Montenegro, which is in the Balkans, which I had never heard of. I've been to Brunei, and I hope to just kind of continue to live a life of service and joy and meet other wonderful people like yourselves and other people in our ICAP class and just continue to grow the network for nothing else than to just really know and meet really other awesome people. So I was really sort of excited but also nervous to be on the podcast because, I told you, once I listened to some of the other people you had on there, I was like man, these people are amazing. So I'm really, really happy to be here and very, very proud of you for doing this career cheat code. I think it's really awesome and a wonderful thing that you are doing for our community as well.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate it. I just think you know amazing people should connect and amazing people should be highlighted, so thank you for joining us today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did and believe on the mission we're on, please like, rate and subscribe to this podcast on whatever platform you're using, and share this podcast with your friends and your networks. Make sure you follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at Career Cheat Code and tell us people or careers you would like to see highlighted. See you next week with some more cheat codes. Peace.
