Career Cheat Code
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Career Cheat Code
082 | From Temp to Philanthropic Leader with Erika Williams
Erika Williams, Managing Partner of The Alberio Group, shares her non-linear career journey from temp worker to philanthropy executive to social impact consultant, revealing how embracing flexibility and recognizing "divine order" creates fulfilling opportunities.
• Started career through a temp agency that placed her at Morgan Stanley's investment banking division
• Strategically navigated from admin roles to the Morgan Stanley Foundation by networking internally
• Used employer tuition benefits to earn a graduate degree debt-free from the New School
• Created consulting practice as a career foundation, allowing flexibility to take interesting opportunities
• Maintained artistic expression throughout professional life after attending LaGuardia High School
• Recommends approaching temp agencies as "career ambassadors" to explore different fields
• Emphasizes knowing your worth and asking for fair compensation, especially in consulting
• Advises entrepreneurs to determine their endgame—whether building to sell or for satisfaction
• Suggests consulting allows for freedom to pursue diverse projects while maintaining independence
• Encourages maintaining all passions rather than "deciding" to cut them off
Never let go of your interests and passions. It's all part of you, so honor that, honor the journey, honor the things that you love, and always leave space for them. As soon as you cut something off, you are limiting yourself for what might be possible.
Disclaimer:
The views shared on Career Cheat Code are those of the guests and don’t reflect the host or any affiliated organizations. This podcast is for inspiration and information, highlighting unique career journeys to help you define success and take your next step.
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What do I want to do?
Speaker 1:So try this for two months, try this for three months. Let your temp agency be your ambassador. Like you know, I was at this job for three months and these are the things I liked about it. These are the things I didn't like about it. Do you have anything on your list of opportunities that feel like a better match for me? Given the feedback that I've given you, I think like we don't do enough, and I wish we did.
Speaker 1:But there was a moment, raddy, when I thought I was going to be in advertising and marketing. I thought I actually worked for this magazine called Class Magazine through Uniworld Group. I thought I was going. I had a mentor at J Walter Thompson while I was at LaGuardia High School, a big advertising company. I knew I was going. I had a mentor at J Walter Thompson while I was at LaGuardia High School, like a big ad advertising company. I knew I was going to be in advertising. But the way like my life, it didn't work that way, and so you know I am where I am. I could not have traded any of these experiences for anything in the world. I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. So you always have plans and ideas about what you want to do and then again divine order like puts you in other places and I always tell people you are exactly where you need to be at that time.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Career Cheat Code. In this podcast, you'll hear how everyday people impact the world through their careers. Learn about their journey, career hacks and obstacles along the way. Whether you're already having the impact you want or are searching for it, this is the podcast for you. All right, erica, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me Appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Appreciate you joining Career Cheat Code. Let's dive right in. Let's tell the world what it is you do for a living.
Speaker 1:What do I do for a living? So I am the owner of the Alberio Group. It is a consulting practice focused on supporting social purpose driven organizations. So we help to build their capacity. So everything from fundraising to board development strategic planning, I've been doing that on and off for about 12 years and then recently I would say maybe top of this year January came back to it full time. So that's what I do. I help nonprofit organizations be better.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, so tell me more about who is your ideal client and what does your week look like.
Speaker 1:It ranges, and I don't know that I have an ideal client. I would say optimal is when there is trust and collaboration. I think for the most part I work with a lot of founders of nonprofit organizations and for them these organizations are their babies. They put a lot of energy and effort into establishing them and they also care a lot about families, communities, children, and so I always want to make sure that I am doing and showing up for them in the best way possible.
Speaker 1:I have my ideas, my views based off experience, expertise, but it doesn't work unless we both feel like we are contributing to the ultimate outcome. So that's sometimes tough conversations, that's a lot of push and pull, while not like in the moment. Sometimes it gets really complicated when I'm pushing for something and kind of pushing them out of their comfort zone and they're pushing back a little bit. But I find that those are the clients that get the best results, the ones who are willing to stretch, the ones who challenge me and my assumptions and my thinking. I think ultimately we get the best outcome that way. So they may not come off as ideal clients in the beginning, but certainly the end result makes me feel like, oh, that was a win. We were successful in that.
Speaker 2:Well, that's great. So you said you've been doing this on and off for about 12 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you started this consulting company about 12 years ago. Can you tell me a little bit more about why you started it around that time, kind of what the on and off portions look like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, lots of on and off ramps when it comes to my career especially. So I started the practice while I was maybe a little bit before. I was kind of in between jobs, between working with the Annie E Casey Foundation, atlanta and going to Fulton County's Human Services Department where I manage research and evaluation for the Health and Human Services Division.
Speaker 1:And so in between that time I was working with someone and we had this brilliant idea of starting a consulting practice, and so that's essentially what we did and it ranged. You know, it was focused on community development more broadly. So we've worked in economic development, workforce development strategies, and then when I started working full-time with Fulton County, I kind of put that to the side. I would do maybe small projects here and there, but nothing as extensive as what I'm doing when it's been full time. And then I had the opportunity to win a fellowship. I was working, or I applied for a fellowship with the Robert Bosch Foundation, which was really for mid-career professionals, an opportunity to kind of exchange between Germany and America. So 20 American fellows went to Germany for a little over a year and worked on various topics. My topic was really about women's entrepreneurship and its impact on sustainability. I had a lot of, obviously, experience as being a woman entrepreneur, but also because a lot of the work that I was doing was focused again on community development, sustainability more broadly.
Speaker 1:So I went to Berlin. I speak a little German, I had to study German before going and even when I got there there was months and months and months of German training. But I also got to work with the Heinrich Boll Foundation, which was, or is, the think tank for the Green Party for the European Union. I did that for a year. It was a fabulous experience. I got to travel all over the world. It's easy to do when you are living in Europe. And when I came back I had the opportunity to work with another foundation in Michigan and I felt like, well, I just dragged my family to Berlin, I don't know that I could take them to Michigan, and so I kind of came back to Atlanta, which is where I was living at the time, and said, well, before taking a full-time job, maybe I want to try my hand at going back into consulting, where I'd have some flexibility and really create some space and time for me to think about what I wanted to do next.
Speaker 1:So that was kind of the on and off ramp in terms of like kind of on and then in between jobs. But also, you know, given the work that I do, I have a lot of opportunity to meet a lot of people and engage with a lot of folks, and they're always they have first view into your work product. They have first view into how you show up for organizations, for people, and so I never had it. There was never like any wait time or downtime Like folks as soon as I would let people know like hey, you know, I'm kind of in between, trying to figure some things out, let me know if I can be supportive of you and your work in this moment.
Speaker 1:And it was always kind of a resounding yes, I can totally use you, your skill set, your just a lot of kind of like things you can't necessarily quantify. It's just kind of how you are and it always helps when people feel like they can work with you and you have context for the work that they do already. So that is, I think, what made it really really easy for me to kind of come in and out of consulting, and I've always loved it. It was usually a really good opportunity that would present itself, that would kind of bring me back into the workforce in terms of a nine to five. But I always felt like, at the end of the day, if it doesn't fit anymore or if I'm feeling like kind of I've done all I can do in that space, having kind of my consulting practice to kind of come back to has been extremely helpful.
Speaker 2:Now I appreciate that right, because you're showing how having something activated doesn't necessarily mean that you have to do it 100% of your time, right, like there are times when that was the case and you were dedicating 100% of it. There are times when that was the case and you were dedicating 100% of it. There are times when, as you said, opportunities came and you were like you know what, maybe I should take this role.
Speaker 2:I'll still keep my consulting, whether I keep some clients on the side or not, but when I need that I could just jump back into it. So I think that's a great approach to consulting, unless you have this plan of becoming, you know, of hiring people and growing that as an organization, which it just doesn't sound like. That was where you were at the time.
Speaker 1:No, raddy, it's a really good point because I think when you are doing any entrepreneurial venture, whether it's consulting or anything else, you kind of have to know what your end game is. Right Like, do I want to build a business with the intent to sell it one day? Right Like you have to kind of go in knowing. Or do I want employees? Right Like, do I want to hire folks? Do I want to be responsible for payroll? Like these are important questions.
Speaker 1:The way I ran my consulting practice is again, I have a huge network of folks who are also kind of maybe in between jobs, maybe have the flexibility within their current nine to fives to do some stuff on the side, their moonlighting. And because of that I had a network of maybe 20 plus what I would say independent contractors where if I got a project that was kind of beyond, kind of what my current capability, I can always reach into that network, tap into that network and bring people onto a project, which was great because I could like scale up, scale down as I need to. So I didn't necessarily need to say no to big projects just because maybe I was a one woman show. I always said yes. Back then I think I'm a little bit more strategic and intentional now, but back then I always said yes, because I felt like I could always bring someone in with the expertise to help me do this work, to help me deliver, to help me execute.
Speaker 1:And so you're 100% right, you don't have to necessarily be all in all the time. You just have to know at the outset what kind of business am I growing? You know what I mean. Am I building this business to sell it one day? Am I doing this because it gives me some personal and professional satisfaction? Right? Like I love the flexibility of consulting. I love the idea that I don't necessarily have to work with one organization, one person, one entity in one place. Like I love the diversity that consulting affords me, which is another reason why I never wanted to really let it go.
Speaker 2:That makes a lot of sense and you know, as someone who just recently started his own consulting practice, I appreciate hearing all that right, because it does give you that flexibility and it is. It was one of the things that I had to ask myself when I was starting this um someone. I had several conversations with different consultants and one of them asked me like well, you should think about what is your end game, right?
Speaker 2:Like do you want to grow a thing or do you just want to do your own thing? Because you get approached separately and then you know, of course, through reading some books around starting your own consulting company. Some of that was also iterated, so you know. It's just good, I think, advice for entrepreneurs generally Like what is your exit strategy, what is your vision?
Speaker 2:But, also specifically for consultants. So we can think about what does 10 years down the line look like? And then you act accordingly. And you mentioned in some of those on and off ramps, as you call them right. So tell me about. Most recently when I met you, you were working at a foundation. Would love to hear kind of your story of how that became one of your on ramps right.
Speaker 2:And then lead to where you are now. So how did you end up getting that role? Are you like actively seeking, as you had consulting clients, or what did that look like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, great question. So I wasn't actively seeking any role. In fact I had just left a part time role with the Pierre and Tana Matisse Foundation, which is an arts education foundation in New York City. It was really, really great because we got to give a lot of grant making dollars to schools to do whatever it is that they wanted to do as it related to arts and education. And it was fabulous because my background I went to the FAME school, school for the Performing Arts, so arts has always been near and dear to my heart. So it was a little mix of that plus some grant makings. Like how could I say no? And so it was great.
Speaker 1:And then when that role ended, I was like okay, I'm just going to go back into my consulting practice and I'm not really looking for a job. In fact, I don't know that I ever want to have a nine to five again. That's what I told myself. I'm like I'm so good on that, right. I felt like I was making a lot more money. I mean, I was making a lot more money as a consultant. I again, I love the flexibility of it and I was like good.
Speaker 1:And then a good friend of mine reached out to me and asked if I would be interested in joining Mike Bloomberg's campaign when he was running for president. Initially I said I'm not sure right, because I wasn't 100% sure that Mike Bloomberg was my candidate that I would vote for him. But after a lot of interrogation and investigation around kind of what he stood for as a presidential candidate, the thing that really helped me decide was his economic justice for Black America policy and at that time every presidential candidate had like a plan for Black America and his plan resonated with me the most and it felt like all the things that that plan included you know, housing community engagement, really thinking about the criminal justice system in a different way made me think like well, if this is what it looks like to have someone like him in office, that would be a proponent of this kind of work. That's the candidate for me and so I joined that campaign. I never worked on a political campaign Some folks will tell you that I still haven't, because when you've worked on a presidential campaign with Mike Bloomberg it's a little different probably from other kinds of political campaigns. But it was a whirlwind. I had a very young baby at the time, not even one years old when I joined that campaign and we were all over the country promoting this economic justice for Black America policy, trying to win the vote of Black people, and that experience was amazing. And then, shortly after his campaign ended, he wanted to continue that work and so it became basically myself and the director of African-American outreach for that campaign and another person who co-wrote that policy, working together to basically figure out how do we right-size a policy for a philanthropic portfolio. And we did that with really, really smart people economists, great people over a year's time and created the Greenwood Initiative, which was focused on building Black wealth. Essentially, it was done.
Speaker 1:It was started at a time where we were in the middle of a global health pandemic with COVID. It was started at a time where we were in the middle of what some would refer to as a racial reckoning the murder of Mr George Floyd. There was just a lot going on at the time and our first investment out of that portfolio was $100 million to historically Black medical schools to reduce student loan debt, and it was right for the time Again, I think, when you everyone's lived through this, when you have a global pandemic like COVID, there was so many people dying, but disproportionately people of color dying, but disproportionately people of color. And then I think the disparities that probably you and I kind of live and know like the back of our hand kind of rose to the forefront in terms of what is happening in the world in terms of healthcare and disparities and what does it mean for frontline workers who don't have the kinds of support but also just the lack of just medical doctors, black medical doctors. It's like why don't we have more Black doctors In Tulsa? During Greenwood we probably had more Black doctors in Greenwood than we have in some places in this country right now today.
Speaker 1:And so $100 million, our first investment out the door and we've done a lot of great work since then. But I kind of moved from working on a political campaign and immediately the next day still in campaign headquarters trying to really whiteboard what a funding portfolio would look like and kind of doing that kind of in consultant mode and then eventually asked to join the foundation full-time. So I kind of fell into that. That wasn't a role that I saw, that I applied for. It was kind of like we're in it, we're doing it and now, oh, I'm here full time. But that certainly wasn't planned.
Speaker 2:Wow. So you really went in there, one because you believed in him as a presidential candidate, then two through your consulting lens, really helping them shape what that initiative would look like as a foundation, right. And then from there things just kind of continue and you say you know what, maybe I would again go on an on-ramp or off-ramp. Right To really consider what it would look like to join a team that was deploying large amounts of capital to support black America throughout the country, right? So, like you, just kind of fell into that, which.
Speaker 2:I think for me it's just great to hear how nimble you are right You're going to do your consulting and you have this part-time gig. You're going to go join this campaign. You know what I'll do a stint in philanthropy.
Speaker 1:And that lasted you a couple of years, right, yeah, I know A few years. I was there altogether for about four years. That wasn't the first time that that happened, raddy. I started my career actually in investment banking and the arm ramp into that space was also very interesting. So I worked for Morgan Stanley. I went to Lincoln University. That was my college the first historically Black colleges college in Oxford, pennsylvania and so I don't have to tell you that there weren't like big investment banking firms recruiting from Lincoln University. So a lot of people don't know this. But I got to Morgan Stanley through a temp agency.
Speaker 1:I graduated college trying to figure out what's next and started working with a temp agency, and one of my first placements was at Morgan Stanley in their investment banking division working in mergers and acquisitions, doing research, admin work really just kind of fell into it. And I was in investment banking working in mergers and acquisitions at a time where mergers and acquisitions, m&a, restructuring, was hot. There were so many companies merging, big firms, merging other firms, acquiring restructuring. It was so, so busy and I got to learn so so, so much, but I also was working very, very long hours. I think some of that is when you come through a non-traditional route, the impetus to feel like I have to show and prove that I belong here, that I deserve to be here, that I'm smart enough to be here. There is a lot of like you know I have to show them, and so I'm working sunup, sundown kind of thing. So you're talking 70, 80 hours a week just working, and while I love the idea of what a big brand like Morgan Stanley does for your career, for your resume, and I love what I was learning, I'm a learner. I'm a lifelong learner. So whenever I have an opportunity to learn something that's usually what attracts me to a role is the opportunity to learn something, and so I've learned a lot.
Speaker 1:But I shortly also learned that this was not the path. Like, I did not want to be an investment banker, and at Morgan Stanley there are non-traditional routes all the time and people do climb the ranks. But I didn't want to do that. But I didn't want to necessarily give up that brand, and so I would. Literally, this is when we had now I'm aging myself. This is when we had the intranet, so you would go onto the company's website and I would just look up things like community, things like economic policy, just to see if there were departments, divisions, within a 50,000 employee global firm that would have something proximate to what I believe that I was interested in. That was really the entry into philanthropy for me.
Speaker 1:I knew I wanted to go back to school. Morgan Stanley at the time offered a full-time ride to do it. They were going to pay for me to go to graduate school all expense paid, but it had to be related to your career. And so going to pay for me to go to graduate school, all expense paid, but it had to be related to your career. And so I knew I didn't want an MBA because I didn't want to stay in investment banking. So I was like, how can I figure this out?
Speaker 1:And the next thing, you know, I'm having an informational interview with the director of the community affairs division who also ran the foundation, the Morgan Stanley Foundation Informational interview, just to learn, like what is it that they do? Because I have no idea what a foundation does, like this is not something that you know about. Well, I will say I didn't know about this career track and I talked to her. She had a job opportunity and offered it to me on the spot. So that's like a non-traditional way of being flexible, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater right, because I could have just said I don't want to do this and just left Morgan Stanley altogether. But I really got thoughtful and tried to be strategic about my next step. I'm always thinking about what's next in a way that's going to support me and my long-term goals and so that's how I ended up in philanthropy the first time around.
Speaker 1:So there's so many instances of me just like falling into roles. But when it's divine, it's divine.
Speaker 2:Wow, and first of all, I love that when it's divine, it's divine. Second, you know so you started out as a temp. How long did you actually stay there for?
Speaker 1:Well as a temp or at Morgan Stanley period.
Speaker 2:At Morgan Stanley.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was there for about six years Wow, so you know, and I appreciate that right, because I'm also someone who turned a temp job into like a five and a half year thing. Oh really, yeah, I was doing that at Columbia university. I went in on like a nine month contract and, you know, it also turned out to be, you know, one of the greatest experiences, especially earlier on in my career. You know, and I appreciate that, not only did you say you know what I'm going to take this temp job, you also then took the initiative to say, well, what would I actually want to do here If it's not just investment banking? This is a 50,000 people firm.
Speaker 1:There must be something I like right, there has to be. There has to be something within this firm that I would like to do. I got to work at the foundation. I got to manage this is where arts comes in again I got to manage their arts and cultural grant making and their diversity and education grant making, you know, basically strengthening, strengthening the pipeline for diverse talent. So that was like right up my alley but you know, I fell into that role and then I got to get my, my graduate degree from new school, from the new school in urban policy and community development.
Speaker 2:Talk to me about if you got into investment banking through this temp agency. Talk to me about what you were doing in college before that. Were you actually studying?
Speaker 1:at Lincoln University.
Speaker 2:And what was your ideal role at that point? What I would do next.
Speaker 1:So I studied business, so I got my bachelor's in business administration and I don't know that I had an ideal role. And I think this is the thing when you are I am a kind of first generation college goer, right? So when you don't have folks in your family who are constantly talking to you about like your career and your career choices, you don't have a whole lot of guidance. And it was interesting because I think while I was in well before high school I was going to I went to a gifted and talented school in New York City, my hall. I had an opportunity to do like A Better Chance and you know, a Better Chance is an organization that pretty much sets folks up for like boarding school and a career like in investment banking. Maybe would have been more obvious had I gone through a program like that, but I actually didn't choose to go to A Better Chance. I actually decided to pursue my love for the arts. So I got a scholarship to attend the Harlem School of the Arts where I studied classical music, and that was pretty much my entree into getting into LaGuardia High School, which just opened up so many opportunities and things for me artistically. But I could have been on an entirely different track had I gone the A Better Chance route. So there are moments in my life where I'm kind of like, oh, I could have done this. But when I got to school I knew business was an interest. I also kind of had this thing like I wanted to make money, like, and I didn't think that I could do that. Like singing, you know, like I have a pretty nice voice, but like, do I have a nice enough voice where I'm gonna to pursue this full time and be able to eat on a regular basis? I don't know. So I wanted to just be in business. I knew that much. That's all I knew. I've always been like a hustler in spirit, so I'm always working, doing things, and business just seemed right. But I did not have a plan of like, okay, when I graduate college, what do I do next? Which is how I ended up at a temp agency. Right, because I didn't have like any real sense of I want to work in this firm, I want to do this kind of business or this kind of work. But temp agencies are great for that, right. Like you know, people should not, you know, shy away or shun particularly young people what temp agencies offer Because, just as much as temp agencies, from their perspective, the employer is trying to fill a temporary need. It's an opportunity for that young person to also try out a lot of different things, right, like what do I want to do? So try this for two months, try this for three months. Let your temp agency be your ambassador. Like you know, I was at this job for three months and these are the things I liked about it. These are the things I didn't like about it. Do you have anything on your list of opportunities that feel like a better match for me? Given the feedback that I've given you, I think like we don't do that enough and I wish we did.
Speaker 1:But there was a moment, raddy, when I thought I was going to be in advertising and marketing. I thought I actually worked for this magazine called Class Magazine through Uniworld Group. I thought I was going. I had a mentor at J Walter Thompson while I was at LaGuardia High School, like a big ad advertising company. I knew I was going to be in advertising. But the way, like my life, it didn't work that way, and so you know I am where I am.
Speaker 1:I could not have traded any of these experiences for anything in the world. I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. So you always have plans and ideas about what you want to do and then again divine order puts you in other places and I always tell people you are exactly where you need to be at that time. There are no wrong moves you can make. There are no wrong decisions you can make. You are exactly where you need to be and I think my career has demonstrated that, has shown that need to be, and I think my career has demonstrated that, has shown that, yeah, no, I completely.
Speaker 2:That completely resonates with me, right and I this is now like the third time you've also mentioned art, so it sounds like art has always been at the core of you and something that has helped shape the way you navigate. Do you still have ways and outlets to express that art? Right and I ask because I know I think consulting lends itself to that. I think entrepreneurship consulting lends itself to that. I think entrepreneurship generally lends itself to that. But just wondering if you're able to like actually express that somehow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you, Entrepreneurship definitely lends itself to, like creativity, artistic expression. I still sing occasionally. You know people who know I can sing will ask me to sing at their wedding or something like that. So I've done a lot of wedding singing. But also, I think music in general, art in general, creativity and expression should feel healing.
Speaker 1:I got to work with an organization actually a long walk home based in Chicago that helped women and girls who have experienced sexual violence, trauma in their life, like through the arts, support and heal them Like I got to do that as a consultant, you know, helping this organization grow and deepen their capacity to deliver really good work and supportive services to young girls who needed it. So art has always been like woven in my life one way or the other. I am, you know, there's so much research out there that shows, like when children are exposed to the arts, like all the kinds of things that like just how their minds open up. So my children are engaged in the arts. Like it's kind of like they don't really have a choice. We're also art collectors, so we invest in art. We just believe that, especially for my babies, it's important for them to see you know people that look like you and me make amazing art and to see that on their walls and their home, to develop a love and appreciation for art, I think has made me a better person, and I believe it just makes people better. Like to appreciate someone's talent goes a long way, and I think that's true in like any business nine to five. Like.
Speaker 1:The idea of art also is about collaboration, working together, right, for the best outcome. We all don't need to sing the same note, right. Like it's best when folks are have their section singing their line, doing their part. It might sound cheesy, but these are lifelong lessons that you bring into all kinds of situations, right? But most importantly, I think it's the love and appreciation. Right, someone has done something that I can't do and I'm appreciating what they've put into it because literally, they have poured their heart and soul into something for the benefit of other people's enjoyment, and so at the very least, we should be respectful and appreciative of that. So I try to teach my children that. But yeah, arts it's in you, it's a soul thing, it's always there.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I can definitely see that through and I appreciate how you connect the dots between not only are you a layered individual and therefore art can be woven into whatever you do, but also you can actually channel that through your consulting to say you know what? I'm going to help some youth, I'm going to work with some, I'm going to take some take on some foundations that actually focus on arts and education.
Speaker 2:right, like you're able to like still do the things that you're passionate about, just from a different lens, that maybe we just didn't know was an option when we were growing up.
Speaker 1:I had not thought about it that way, raddy, but yeah, you 100%. That is 100% the truth. I think you can find a way to weave in your interests, passions, love for all kinds of things, and I think where people get tripped up is that they think they have to choose right and decide, you know. And so the Latin word for like side is to kill off, to cut off right. So decide, homicide, like you're cutting something off.
Speaker 1:You don't necessarily have to decide to cut off interest or passion or things that you love. It's all part of you and, to your earlier point, we're all layered individuals. So honor that, honor the journey, honor the things that you love, honor your passions and always leave space for them, because as soon as you cut something off, as soon as you kill it right, you are literally limiting yourself for what might be possible, for the many opportunities that might be waiting for you. So don't kill anything that's inside you, right Like, keep all of that alive and figure out new ways to cultivate love on and and make purposeful. I think is really important.
Speaker 2:Wow, what a beautiful way to blend that together. Right, I hadn't even thought about what side man and kind of where that came from, so that was. That was awesome. I didn't get to ask you this earlier, but when you mentioned you went after your master's, did you actually take advantage of your company's reimbursement or financial help?
Speaker 1:I sure did Great.
Speaker 2:I got all my coins.
Speaker 1:I got all my coins. I got all the things. I literally took advantage of everything, so tuition reimbursement, books, reimbursement, 100% of everything and the only thing that they asked is that you stay a year after you finished, right? So, after they made that last tuition reimbursement payment, that you stick with the firm for a year, which I did before leaving New York and moving to Atlanta.
Speaker 2:That makes sense and, honestly, one that's a fair ask.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can stick around for 12 more months. You have paid for my entire graduate degree. I think I could do you the solid.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And I just like to name it because for me I have a master's degree as well, but that was also paid by my organization, right? So people may look at me and say, oh Raddy, you got a master's, let me go get a master's. I'm like, hold on now, I ain't take on no $70,000 debt for no degree. So like think about why, you want it and how you can strategically position yourself 100%.
Speaker 2:I happen to work at an education institution and literally the moment I got my letter to work there, I was like all right, well, I'm going to turn this temporary job into a full-time job. The moment I turned that into a full-time job, I'm like great. I don't know what this looks like in terms of what masters I'm going to walk away from, but I'm not leaving this place without something.
Speaker 1:Without it.
Speaker 2:Without it, that's right, I was like Denzel, like I'm leaving this place.
Speaker 1:I love that. Get it, get all that you can possibly get, why not? I mean, so many times we leave things on the table. Very seldom do people, you know particularly when it's your first job like you're just so happy to have a job, maybe that you like go through that benefits package, y'all like get deep into it, read the fine print? So many times we're leaving dollars, big dollars, on the table because we haven't taken the time to look into our company's match.
Speaker 1:But you'll never hear me say, like you know, go just be an entrepreneur. And like you know, nine to fives or for suckers Like you, you will never, ever hear me say that because but you have to go in to your point, raddy, like you're, like I'm leaving with something. You have to go in with that mindset, that mentality. As much as you're getting from me my good brain, my talent, my network, my social capital, as much as you're getting all of that from me. These are the things I'm getting from you, and it doesn't just have to be a paycheck.
Speaker 1:If you are a full-time employee, I'm going to assume that you have benefits of some sort, benefits of some sort, and you should be interrogating that benefits package and getting everything you can possibly get Now. Sometimes certain benefits don't kick in for like six months or a year, or mark that bad boy on your calendar. Like I need y'all to be intentional, super deliberate about getting all that you can so because when you leave it's like they don't owe me anything. You know what I mean and I don't owe them anything. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I have a wife who works in HR, so anytime we're going over benefits package, one of the things that she likes to tell me is Raddy, if you're not taking advantage of all your benefits, you're underpaid, especially if it's something like tuition or reimbursement. That means that's money that should have just put towards your salary, but because it didn't, you need to take advantage of it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. I love that I had not thought about that. Because, to be honest and, radha, you and I have talked about this before sometimes, particularly the bigger brand institutions, they don't want to pay you right. They're like, nah, our brand is strong enough and you should just be happy to be here and you should take what we're giving you, but usually because it's a benefit to them, they have a whole bunch of other things that are like tax write-offs for them. They have a whole bunch of other benefits that people rarely tap into. And so, to your point, if you're not going to see it in your check, or to your wife's point, if you're not seeing it in your check, you absolutely like that. Now you really need to go hard at getting all that you can in terms of the other benefits, because you know, like you said, let's not leave anything on the table, let's, let's get all of it.
Speaker 2:I actually want to talk a little bit about how you and I met right, because I think our paths crossed while you were at Bloomberg Philanthropies and while I was at the Rockefeller Foundation right, that's right.
Speaker 1:Big brands oh you name dropping now. Now you name dropping already Like these are the big brands.
Speaker 2:They name drop us when they say we work there. But yeah, so, like these are the big brands, they name drop us when they say we work there. But yeah, so you know, so you know. I think really our, our paths crossed through a series of things. So one was attending similar events because we were investing in similar topics and, you know, one of the things I really appreciated from you was the woman you and I connected. You were very welcoming to me as someone that has been in philanthropy for so long. Like yourself, I was new to philanthropy. I was like a couple months into philanthropy I was like I don't know what I'm doing but I'm here making it work, doing great yeah.
Speaker 2:You know I'd like to think I did a decent job over there. But you know, I think you and I really you know I gravitated towards you because you were so welcoming. You were like all right, here's what I would be thinking about at this point in my career, and like we would talk about the work and how do we support each other through that, like if we're doing some things that are advancing initiatives for black and brown communities throughout the country we could talk work.
Speaker 1:Let's talk work.
Speaker 2:Let's make that happen, and you would always take it upon yourself to check in on me as, like a professional.
Speaker 1:Like all right. Well, how are you doing in this space?
Speaker 2:How's the space, treating you and you were like just great at connecting me with people or like just thinking about spaces that I need to be in, so I just always have appreciated that.
Speaker 1:So just wanted to take a moment to say thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I have many things to thank you for. I mean definitely that Radhi you in the same way that you talk about, like, how you've been supportive, how I've been supportive in terms of like thinking about you, like, how are you doing? You've also afforded me amazing opportunities. One my time that I spent in Italy at the Bellagio like would not have happened without your support. And getting to be in a room full of genius. I'm talking about genius people, talking about the issues that you and I care about deeply, which is economic support, mobility for people of color. Like I got to work with some of the most brilliant people over a matter of days, coming up with all kinds of ideas that would not have happened without you, and, in fact, it was one of those in that moment.
Speaker 1:Like, spending time in Italy, it was kind of thinking. I was thinking, probably while walking along Lake Como, I was thinking I want more experiences like this. I was thinking I want more experiences like this, right, like, how do I cultivate more experiences like this, where I get to be in a room with other really really dope, smart people who care about things that I care about, who may not view solutions in the way that I view them, which is even better right, because that diversity and thought is helping me grow as a person, and so it was really a pivotal moment for me. I don't know that I've ever shared that with you, but I can be in a beautiful space with beautiful people, brilliant people, like really doing what I love, talking about the things that I love. I need more opportunities like this, and so if I'm not in a space within an organization that is consistently creating opportunities like that for me, then I need to create my own. You know, and it was a huge impetus for like making the decision as soon as I did, so, thank, you.
Speaker 2:Wow, I appreciate that. Thank you, I think it's it's a really symbiotic relationship there, like I think. I specifically remember the restaurant that I was in. When you called me back and said, yeah, I'd be interested in doing this, I was like I stepped out. I was having dinner with my wife and I was like, wait, wait, wait, I think she might be able to do it For me. It's like, as you said, it's a room full of geniuses. These are your peers, these are folks that you're going to contribute equally to this conversation. It was exciting to be able to potentially make that happen.
Speaker 1:I'm glad it worked out, you showed up.
Speaker 2:You did the things. I'm just glad that that was able to help, but I didn't realize the other things there. So I appreciate that that. So one of the things that I like to talk about on this platform is salaries. So, as someone that has been in philanthropy for so long and someone that has been an entrepreneur for so long, can you talk a little bit about how you're able to financially sustain both, as you're doing philanthropy maybe part-time, I mean, as you're doing consulting maybe part-time?
Speaker 2:versus when you're doing it full-time and if you're going to be in philanthropy at this stage in your career, what would that look like, to even have a conversation about salary?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. First of all, I appreciate that on this platform you're talking about salaries, because I think that too often we don't hear people talking about how much do people make? And the truth is, I think, particularly in the philanthropic sector and I can say this because I've worked for many foundations, not just here in the country but around the world so it ranges like it vastly ranges At Morgan Stanley. Obviously it was the beginning of my career. So you know, hopefully you are growing in salary as you, as you progress in your career. But I definitely was making under a hundred thousand dollars when I first started at Morgan Stanley, and this was 25 years ago, I think. Over the six years that I was there, I probably have gone from maybe 40K to maybe 100K, under 100K like throughout those years, kind of just jumping around. And that's the other thing to keep in mind is that I someone once told me like that's the time to get your best, and I'm sure your wife knows this. That's the time to get your biggest salary boost is when you change jobs or change roles, so that's the opportunity to negotiate, leverage past experience and negotiate for a different offer. So you know, and you know not to say that that was bad money, but I think I shared this with you.
Speaker 1:I was at an event, networking event, with other like young entrants into the philanthropic space and it was one of those days where it was like six of us. It was like let's put our salary on a piece of paper and, like, put it in a hat, and then the range was like from 35K to 150K. Now these are all like new people coming into the space, like that's a real activity that happened, like that's no nonsense. Like I am telling you to paint the picture of just how buried the compensation can be. And obviously it's based off of a lot of factors just your expertise, maybe your you know, obviously your experience where you went to school, like.
Speaker 1:But I think the number one thing the numbers are based off of is what you ask for, is what you negotiate. So I told you before first generation college goer, like I don't, my mom was a home attendant, right. I don't have context for what a great salary is, especially not 25 years ago, right? So I don't know like you should be asking for this. Nor did I necessarily know what tools research is out there, like now we have AI, we have all the research. We have Google. We didn't have Google when I started y'all. So we have Google, we can always Google right, and there's all kinds of salary, particularly now for philanthropy. That kind of gives you ranges and you kind of can be better informed about a salary request. But back then we didn't have any of that. So that would explain just the range. Like, I think you get what you negotiate, you get what you ask for, and I just wasn't asking for enough is really how I is what I believe.
Speaker 2:Well, that's such a great activity. Right to be in a room with people and say all right, we may not necessarily want to talk about our salaries, but are we willing to just put in a piece of paper and then have a dialogue around that?
Speaker 1:And that's what we did. That's exactly what we did and it was very eye opening, right. We did and it was very eye-opening right, and it helped me now being in a room with my peers. It helped me think like, okay, all right, going into this next role, I'm going to be really clear about what I'm asking for. And so my next role, I think, was with the Annie E Casey Foundation here in Atlanta and that salary was still probably not over 100K, but I also was taking into consideration I was living in Atlanta during a time like cost of living was much, much lower than it was in New York. So I felt like I had a good, I was making a good salary, just kind of three years, four years into philanthropy, like coming into place-based philanthropy for another large foundation at the time Annie Casey Foundation, maybe $3 billion in assets, like you know, small for today, but back then that was like game changing in terms of what philanthropy was doing. So you know it's it's ranged and then you know throughout the years between I told someone what I was making at atisse Foundation, kind of in a part time role. So this is like 15 hours a week and by most standards I was making a full time salary at that. Right, just a part time role Right. So I got smarter. I got a little bit more savvier in terms of like my ass what I'm asking. I got smarter, I got a little bit more savvier in terms of like my ass what I'm asking. But then I was really clear about what I was bringing to the table. Right, like, you get more confidence the more experience that you have and again, you still stick with the. You get what you ask for. You get what you negotiate. So I negotiated a really nice salary for a part time role at an arts education foundation. For a part-time role at an arts education foundation and then consulting.
Speaker 1:What I love about consulting is that you have an opportunity for projects. Right, you have an opportunity for retainers, and I've always tried to, because there's a relationship with the client. Clients feel like I'm an extension of their organization, extension of their staff, and so I've always been able to negotiate retainers, because typically, the kind of work that they're asking me to do goes across many different capacities. Right, it may be strategic planning, it may be large group facilitation, it may be stakeholder engagement, it may be board development right, and I try to do that because, one, it gives me more insight into that particular client when I can work on different things, right. But it also reminds them that, hey, there's so much that Erica and her team can do for us that it makes sense that I have this person, because I'm not going to be able to hire them, that they wouldn't be able to afford to hire me as a full-time person, but they certainly can put me on a monthly retainer six months, 12 months, 18 months. That makes it worthwhile for me, because I don't believe in working for free and I also don't believe in working for cheap.
Speaker 1:And I also don't believe in working for cheap. That's a mindset thing, though, right, like this idea of nonprofits, like they have to do so much more for less. Like that's an important lesson that I teach all of my clients. Like, ask for what it costs, right. So, like, if it costs you $1.2 million to deliver this particular program over a year's time, don't ask for half of that. Right, because this is how organizations and leaders become burned out and literally, I have seen leaders especially leaders of color, more specifically, black women literally kill themselves trying to push forward a mission and they're under-resourced. Now, part of that is systematic right Like you just have.
Speaker 1:Institutions, particularly philanthropic institutions, are guilty of this right Of seeing a person of color leading an organization and maybe they think that they can't necessarily entrust them with all of this money. Right Like we've seen it again, this is not new to me. I've been working in philanthropy for 25 years, so I've seen it happen where we've given less to other organizations than maybe some of their white counterparts, and it's usually because the white counterparts have negotiated something different. They've asked for what they wanted. They have the support around them in terms of board development and other things, to kind of position them in a way that some leaders of color don't necessarily have the same supports around them. And so, systemically, organizations led by people of color are under-resourced, but we don't need to help them by people of color are under-resourced, but we don't need to help them. You know what I mean. Like we should be asking for what it costs. We should be always focused on delivering more of our mission and not being afraid to ask for the things that it costs and not being afraid to diversify our revenue streams.
Speaker 1:Right Like not solely depending on philanthropy, not even solely depending on government grants. I mean, look at this political landscape that we're in right now. Right, you can't even solely lean on that, but there are opportunities for earned revenue for nonprofit organizations. There are opportunities for ownership for commercial real estate for nonprofit organizations. There are ways to bring income into your organization that folks don't typically think about. I mean, look at Girl Scouts, probably one of the largest nonprofit organizations there are. You know how much money Girl Scouts makes from selling Girl Scout cookies.
Speaker 2:A lot of money, right.
Speaker 1:We need to be thinking about all of our nonprofits in that way. Now, if I'm saying that to a client and then I come in nickel and diming right for my services, right, what am I saying to you? That either I don't value what I'm doing, I don't value my work right, or it's not worth it. I'm worth it. The value that I add is absolutely worth it, and so I can't teach you one thing and then not practice that. Right, and I'm not for everybody right, and that's fair.
Speaker 1:Someone could always get a proposal from me and say I can't do that right now, and that's completely acceptable. Do I stop loving you? No, do I stop connecting you to my network? No, do I stop doing the things that within my power to do on your behalf and the behalf of children and families? Absolutely not. It is my life's mission to support organizations and the work that they do, but my business is still my business, and so I always have to ask for what I believe I'm bringing value to. That is a great business, and so I always have to ask for what I believe I'm bringing value to.
Speaker 2:That is a great differentiation and I appreciate all of the career cheat codes that you shared there from thinking about salary both from an employee standpoint and as an entrepreneur, how to grow your consulting, and think about clients retainers versus project. I think that was just beautifully stated.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Are there any forms of media or books or podcasts or things that have impacted you personally or professionally that you'd like to share with the audience today?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought about this question so you know, I'm still not into podcasts.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it is. I'm like I haven't really gotten into. Of course, I've seen the career cheat code and I'm like Raddy, why haven't you invited me to your show? I've got things to say, invite me. But I'm not like in every you know, like some people on their commute, in commute home, like they're always listening to podcasts, I haven't been able to do it, not because I don't think they're great, it's just like I also feel like I'm older, and so sometimes my phone is not set up in a way that lets me do things really smoothly and I'm like, oh, now, wait, what? So what platform do I have to go to for this? And like, can I get that on Apple Music? Like I'm so I'm all over the place.
Speaker 1:So I'm still old fashioned, I still read books, and so I would say, based off of like what we've been talking about, I think our important reads one the Wealthy Barber, I think, by David Chilton or something like that. But the Wealthy Barber is a good one because it really does. Like someone once told me, you need to design your life in a way that you don't need to take a vacation, and I was like, oh, that's dope Right, like creating spaciousness in your everyday life where you don't feel like you need a reprieve, right. So at least that should be like the goal to design your life in a way that feels supportive of you and your family, that you don't feel like I need a reprieve or, oh my God, I can't wait till I take this vacation because this lifestyle, this work, is killing me. So Wealthy Barber helps you do that. The Wealthy Barber is good because it helps you prioritize a nine to five and going back to the benefits and taking advantage of employer matches and all of that. It's one of those, girl, get your money straight, type books right, get your money right so that you can make decisions that support you right. And usually, when your money is strained, it's hard to make decisions that aren't money-based right. And sometimes you find yourself in positions and in predicaments that like if money was not an option, I wouldn't be here. So the Wealthy Barber is like a really good, like how to step-by-step, like here are the things you need to be doing to get your money right. And it's a journey, it's a marathon, not a sprint, but to at least have that information to me feels invaluable. So Wealthy Barber.
Speaker 1:The other one is the four-hour work week, which I'm sure people have said on this podcast many, many times. How do you design a life? That especially now? Raddy, when I got into this space working, when you started working, we didn't have all of this AI type stuff. We didn't have any of this. When I got to college, email was just coming on. I remember someone asked me how long does it take someone to receive an email?
Speaker 2:And I had no idea.
Speaker 1:It was so new then, but now we have so many things, so many ways right Now. Obviously that means a lot more buying for your time, but I think you can think about how to design your life in a way where you're not spending more time working than you are doing the things that you love, and whether that's spending time with family, pursuing your passions, doing other things. So that definitely would be on my list 4-Hour Workweek, tim Ferriss. And then I think, because we talked about consulting and to your point, like knowing the end game, like that's really good advice you receive. That's good advice. We've received the same good advice.
Speaker 1:There's a book called Built to Sell. I think the last name was Worrello or Worrello Built to Sell. It's an easy read but essentially it's someone basically walking someone through how to build a business to sell it one day. And even if you don't intend to sell it, that's how you should build it right, like having that. Like you know, one day I may want to sell it, or one day I may want to add a little bit more rigor to my consulting practice or whatever business that you're in. And if I'm adding rigor, if I'm thinking about growth and expansion, thinking about one day selling. It is a nice framework to help you think about growth and expansion. So those would be, those would be my recommendations. I'm also reading something fun right now Um, good dirt, um, by the person I think it's Charlemagne or Charmaine Wilkerson. She did black cake, which was a Hulu special, but that's like my, my nighttime reading.
Speaker 2:Awesome, thank you. Yeah, I'm going to check out Build to Sell actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you should. It would be really really good for you.
Speaker 2:Is there anything else we haven't discussed today that the world should know about? Erica?
Speaker 1:I am a New Yorker, born and raised Washington Heights. I actually was born in Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, across the street from the Audubon Ballroom where Malcolm X was assassinated. I always say that when people ask me where I'm from, because it's an important context. Washington Heights has been like the crown jewel of my childhood. Grew up on Riverside Drive, my mom is still there. It's like everything that I love about New York the old lady selling empanadas out her window, the corner bodega, some referring to it as the cocaine capital of the world these are all the things that make up me. And my family is from Louisiana. My mom and her older sister migrated from Louisiana to New York City, lived in the Bronx just trying to make a way for themselves, and out of that came me, raised by a single mother who did all that she could to keep me out of trouble and to keep me on the straight and narrow. She's the one who walked me to my audition at Harlem School of the Arts.
Speaker 1:I used to take a bus from Washington Heights to Lincoln Center and I could see just how different neighborhoods were right, like how some trash cans were overflowing with garbage and then, when we got to a certain point, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:Or the bus driver announcing stops. You know, way past the time when we were in my neighborhood he didn't announce stops in my neighborhood, right, like that got me interested in urban policy and like the difference, like planning, like what that does for communities and what it does for a child, you know, like when a child, like a child, walking through vacant, abandoned, deteriorated properties, like what message are we telling our children? About what we care about, how we care about them, how we love them, all that matters and it certainly has influenced my life and my career choices. So, yeah, that's a little bit about who I am. It's like I have a lot of pride there and so it has been great talking to you, randy, like I always enjoy talking to you, and so that's why I was like nudging you a little bit. Like what, why are you not? What's happening?
Speaker 2:As I mentioned, you have absolutely been on my list literally for over a year, so I'm glad that we were able to make it happen. But thank you for joining Career Cheat Code Really appreciate it, of course.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did and believe on the mission we're on, please like, rate and subscribe to this podcast on whatever platform you're using, and share this podcast with your friends and your networks. Make sure you follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at Career Cheat code and tell us people or careers you would like to see highlighted. See you next week with some more cheat codes. Peace.
